Curse

JeniM · Jun 13, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

OK so now warriors ain't got a chance at a PUG

Dervs have good self healing and multi attacks and ARE Anets favorite melee
Sin's have spike damage
Warriors (used) to tank

Who's going to want a tank in Deep or DoA now??
I thought you wanted to stop farming but now the only options for DoA are SF, SS, and Smiters so LESS people will get in a group not more

I have always defended Anets nerfs as balance fixes but this seems crazy and the opposite effect to what i thought Anet wanted

I was also stood in Granite Citadel and watching all the bots,
Why do WE get nerfed and they don't????

Ok everyone say your favorite class and how it's been killed

Warrior - This Cap = no tanking

Anti Oath · Jun 13, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I think they did it to improve HB, because people were just running and ususing defense, I guess capping it promotes an offensive build.
-Anti Oath

FalconDance · Jun 13, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I read this thread last night along with other comments about the temporary (and proposed) changes. The change-of-the-week is the armor cap.

From what I've read, players using stacking armor buffs is really only massively problematic in PvP, right? Of course, it should be expected in a PvP match of any sort that the players would be far superior and more intelligent that AI in PvE, but whatever.

If this is the case, how about this for a solution? In PvE there are areas in missions that have conditionals placed on the players. Movement slowed, healing less effective/health or energy degen, +XX to hp, etc. Why couldn't there be something of that nature in PvP to help alleviate the uber armor stacking instead of enacting a change scross the board that also hurts PvE? Seems to me that the coding would be less, the effect more evenly distributed (everyone gets a max of +25 to armor while in that zone/Hall/wherever, for example), and more of a BALANCE achieved where it needs to be rather than penalizing those where it doesn't.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best, after all.

But, if a cap is still desired, then please make it a more reasonable number or you'll be re-writing a lot of skills.

~Falcon

Corpselooter · Jun 13, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Read: Everybody needs to run Dual-MM in HM now to have decent meatshield/psuedo-tanks.

Andisa Kalorn · Jun 13, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

The armor cap wouldn't be a problem if anet hadn't decided to make high-end pve all about mobs dishing out tons of damage.

I have the feeling that they only want us to use enchantments for defence, because everything else gets nerfed (sometimes I wish I had my old pre-nerf rit skills in hard mode). But in hard mode, mobs can spam enchantment removal like crazy in some areas.

It all comes down to this: the game is very badly designed. When pve means increasingly more damage, but pvp is limited to level 20 human players with a brain, the kind of defence needed for both situations is very different. So when anet nerfs defensive skills that are overpowered in pvp, it ruins good pve builds.

It's not just a matter of complaining that I have to change my skillbar. The armor cap has an effect on a large number of skills and team builds. But it's not even about the armor cap. It's about the fact that anet continues to nerf defence for pvp, while continuing to make monsters more powerful in pve. It makes no sense. And pvpers are still calling for nerfs on other defensive skills (eg. aegis, mystic regen).

What works good against massively overpowered pve enemies is of course going to be too overpowered for pvp. So the whole system is flawed. While the nerfs are needed in pvp, pve becomes collateral damage.

Series · Jun 13, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

This isn't attack against PvE ! Wake up, use observe mode. There is two paragons in 10-25% of the HA teams. So ofc A-net thinks it's time to nerf the paragon a bit.

There are two+ monks in 90-99.99% of the HA teams. So why aren't they nerfed?

Just because a profession is USEFUL does not mean it is OVERPOWERED.

RoadKill97 · Jun 13, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

If SYG and WY are the reason for this cap, I'd much rather have it so that shout armor buffs won't stack with other shout armor buffs than making 10-20 skills next to useless. For example, speaking of PvE, Conviction is complete trash thanks to the cap if the team is smart enough to bring "Watch Yourself!".

EDIT: Wanted to clarify the above a little. There are total of three shouts that increase armor: "Stand Your Ground!", "Shields Up!" and "Watch Yoursefl!". What I'm suggesting is that when two or all three of these skills would be in effect, only the highest al benefit would be in effect. The 50% chance of blocking (from "Shields Up!") would work independently.

OR - to be even more simple: make the +25 armor cap affect only shouts.

Really, if there are more reasons to this cap than shouts, I'd like to hear them. While the cap hardly affects my playing in hard mode, it still ruins a lot of solo and farming builds - AND skills for general playing.

FalconDance · Jun 13, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

It all come down to this: the game is very badly designed. When pve means increasingly more damage, but pvp is limited to level 20 human players with a brain, the kind of defence needed for both situations is very different. So when anet nerfs defensive skills that are overpowered in pvp, it ruins good pve builds.

Which is the crux of the problem.

PvE should never have been tied so intimately to PvP. They should've been two separate entities altogether rather than inherently connected.

~Falcon

MagmaRed · Jun 13, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I haven't tanked in ages, but am sad to see this happen. If it 'needed' to happen, then there needed to be MORE changes made than were. If armor boosts are capped, but single skill armor boosts can exceed it, they need to boost the armor bonus from single skills.

If WY gives a small armor bonus, but can't add anything to someone already using Dolyak, why use it? If you are not using Dolyak, but WY only gives +18, you are slightly gimped. So increase the armor bonus from single skills that won't change anything since adding them to other armor boosts is useless.

And +25 is way too low. With so many skills offering +40 and more, make it a cap of +50 so that you can still use more than 1 skill and get something out of the second.

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

You guys don't get it. Your thinking very small here. Its not just the SYG and WY that is going to be castrated its any combination of armor buffs in the game. Thats well over 30 skills that can't be used together.

SO ANET how does one beat DoA or RoT in hard mode now?

ANET will implement this without regard to it's serious repercussions as usual.

"Castrate Wars"
ANETs ability to snip their own game where if you think your powerful now just wait they are coming for you too. Seriously ANET what is left of the PvE experience now.

I play PvE to get away from life to feel like a powerful Warrior Tank, Motivating Battlefield Commander, Undead General, Spiritual Bonding Summoner, Unstopable Teleporting Hitman, Master of the Elements, Feared Mystic, Scythe wielding death dealer, Precision Sniper, and Life giving healer, etc... Stop taking the experience away from your game before it's too late.

Tanking gone (cant stack armor anymore)
Buffering gone (too many nerfs to the Paragons in general)
Summoning gone (spirits cost too much and die to fast)
Soul Reaping gone (impractical benefit from death)

Whats next... just stay tuned as ANET castrates their own game...

Mangione · Jun 13, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

"Cap of +25 to the armor buff ... is it right?"

Well, in my opinion it isn't. I don't like an armor cap. If it is deemed as necessary, then rise the cap to 40 or something like that.

Most of my Hard Mode builds rely on armor stacking (I play Warrior for most of the time)...

Such kind of passive defense is needed to save my squishies bots from the huge amount of damage done by the mobs (HM mobs are not smarter, just throw tons of dmg at the party).

I hope that after the test WE such cap will be thrown away.

Xeeron · Jun 13, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

It is sad to see that so many people are raging about the armor nerf, but not one mentioned the REAL fault on ANets side: Creating Paragons! Without their insane synergies in PvP teams, we would not have to deal with this now.

- Xeeron

Puebert · Jun 13, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

@Gloryfox

Next Update:

We have noticed there have been some flaws in our changes to Guild Wars, so now we have eliminated all primary professions except warrior, and all secondary professions, except monk.

All character with any other class will have their profession changed accordingly, all players will be equiped with Mending and Power Strike.

We expect that this change will be very dramatic and powerful, so all enemies will be level 34, and 9 elite skills.

PvP no longer exists.

I'll bet you 100 monies thats the next update.

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 13, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

This amazingly huge, nasty, bludgeon of a nerf is the *only* reason I'm very upset with this update.

It wrecks all sorts of synergies, many builds, several team designs, and just completely crunches a pile of skills across several classes.

And as I have said elsewhere, I bought a subscription to Lord of the Rings Online yesterday for my daughter, who was simply furious that ANet had *again* ruined one of her PvE favorite builds, without so much as an explanation. She loved doing tanking with her Earth Ele... now that, and her Paragon, and... well, the list goes on.

The problem isn't an unwillingness to adapt. The problem is the ham-handed attitude of ANet towards its PvE players. Obsidian Flesh tanks weren't hurting ANYONE in PvE -- so why destroy them? It's like killing every first-born child just to stop one kid from growing up.

Yup, that's how strongly I feel about it. Which is one reason I've taken the money that was earmarked for GW:EN and GW2, and spent it on LOTRO. I will not pay more money to a company like ANet who insists on punishing the innocent because they are too lazy to punish the guilty. If there is a PvP imbalance, fix it in PvP. Stop punishing PvE players!

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Stop.

Breaking.

Your.

Game.

Stoneflesh Aura needs nerfing, that is all.

30 second recharge time. Reduces 1...20 damage.

At the very least, increase the AL cap to 100.

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself + Shield of Regeneration (cast from a Prot Monk) is a common PvE tank combo for Warriors.

I beg you.

Stop breaking your game.

EinherjarMx · Jun 13, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

i'd say the next update is changing divine favor so it only triggers with healing prayers, kicking prot monks out of the scene

pingu666 · Jun 13, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

watch yourself just owns everything else. really hard now.

Longasc · Jun 13, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

If the problem is only HA-PvP and SYG + WY...

... why not change one of these skills instead of killing a whole game mechanic, armor stacking.

The problem, if it is really so much of a problem (SYG+WY), is related to a poor game mechanic, (Paragon) shouts, not armor stacking.

EinherjarMx · Jun 13, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

If the problem is only HA-PvP and SYG + WY...

... why not change one of these skills instead of killing a whole game mechanic, armor stacking.

The problem, if it is really so much of a problem (SYG+WY), is related to a poor game mechanic, (Paragon) shouts, not armor stacking.

because it would be easy

it is better and funnier to get the players on rage doing things such as the soul reaping "fix"

"Dev A:Hey! people keeps complaining about SR and spirits on HA, lets fix it. We can do what mos people says on the forums (pvpers and pvers included) we can just avoid the energy gain on spirits
Dev B: nah, that sounds just too easy, lets better change the whole SR mechanics"

and so it will will be going with armor buffs, lets wait for expertise and divine favor

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Hmmm it seems the armor nerf was because paragons with stand your ground and watch yourself completely negated a sf spike well offcourse its obvious you cant keep killing everything by pressing just one button people will adapt to it then adapt to that bring back necro spike obsidian spike whatsoever armor buffs never hurted anyone they kept others from hurting them if its such a nuisance bring armor ignoring spells/moves if they lack at this buff them dont take down armor the primary line of defense for any good warrior in pve.

Also if their gonna do anything like last weeks sr update itl be a lame comprimis of what armor used to be they say something ultra low like 25 and make it a little higher to make people happier just like lootscaling, well i wont take no for an answer keep armor as it is or remove it from the game dont make it a shadow of what it used to be and while your at it make 55 monk a proffesion.

If someone uses more armor for defense they will lack offense a earth ele tank cant kill shit he cant be killed cause people are too cheesy to take 1 enchant removal or interupt skill, also in addition to the paragon pvp build i saw someone say we buff ourselves and chuck spears until everyones dead then ffs let everyone in your team use protectors defense and they wont hit squat.